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TR Bolt Condition

 
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HardwareMan
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: TR Bolt Condition Reply with quote

Hi Guy and Gals

I love the rock. Not the point specifically, but all good climbing rock. I love hanging for dear life and watching the ants walk nonchalantly by. I respect the rock. I come from a line of coal miners, we are rock people.

So I went to the Back Wall... What a mess of top rope bolts. Beautiful rock, and an AMAZING resource (when I lived in wv and had to drive 3 hours to climb anything this nice) But the TR anchor bolts are horrendous and random and natural protection is slim picking and far apart. Long rigging needing a lot of 20 ft plus webbing slings. The boulders for slings are nearly too rounded, and to far for my sling collection so I had to use a 150ft static line for 2 of my three anchors.

There are like 5 TR anchor bolts at the top of A-Frame, one the nut is loose, bolts seems good, the rest have no hangers and are just 3/8th threads sticking out. Seems like justified bolts. Any reason they were removed or just acts of vandalism? They all felt tight. Any beta on this? They are mechanical/expanding bolts...should this rock have glue ins, as sowr suggests?

In addition, I saw bolts with hangers removed all along the backwall, from a-frame to owl-hole, but I didn't go any further, so the rest are unknown to me. Any beta on that?

I want to put sets of three Fixe #541 bolts in a few of those climbs and possible remove the ratty mess of anchors there now. I got the as sowr recommended in another thread about bolts. Also, I would add maillons with blue locktite on the threads when funds permitted. It seems vandals are around and like to mess up our fun. This setup would be more vandal resistant.

The natural protection seems spread out and is on the edge of being too rounded, especially for ropes vs slings, and you need some 30ft slings it seems sometimes.



I saw an earlier post about a possible stewardship grant for this awesome climbing resource. Any body ever get that? Is there some sort of group or local authority I can ask for this permission? I want climbing to be fun, safe and accessible without a bag of 40 ft slings.

If there is no agency or entity or otherwise no one taking care of the rock there on back wall,I appeal to the author of the fine book Urban Rock, which is a must have. I see he chimes in from time to time offering mini grants for this sort of thing. So if your out there please give me either; your blessings to proceed, or let me know who I can get permission from.

TLDR;
I want to replace some bad and questionable Top Rope bolts with missing hangers with sets of three Fixe #541 glue in bolts, and add screw on maillons as funds permit.
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Tozanyaku
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Joined: 06 May 2007
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Location: Torrance, ca

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hangers keep getting removed and locktite wont stop them.

The best way to keep the hangers from getting removed would be to weld the nuts on the bolts, this can be done with a car battery, heavy duty jumper cables and a coat hanger and some experience in welding.
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HardwareMan
NooB


Joined: 08 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: dunno if thats the BEST way Reply with quote

the best way is to use a glue in with no hanger or nut.

welding it, especially in such a crude way, is going to mess up the heat treatment of the metals involved, and make it a little weaker. strong enough? probably, but i am not going to hang from something less that 100%..

the glue ins are easy and better suited to sandstone than compression bolts anyhow...
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Tozanyaku
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Location: Torrance, ca

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with glue ins being best but the bolts in question are already there and as you put it a crude welding job at least would secure it... I tried RED locktite which is the strongest and the nuts were removed a few weeks later I also tried a punch on the threads also gone in a few weeks.


The method I am suggesting will not affect the metallurgical properties that affects bolt strength because it would just be a spot-weld. Plus it would not require putting more holes in the rock. I have been climbing at Stony Point for a very long tine I have built anchors on 1/4 inch bolts and I assure you a little bit of spot-welding will hold just fine.


If you want to add bolts on every route do not be surprised if they get chopped because someone thought they were overkill, unsightly, too big, or you could have used natural or who knows why. I have seen the bolts chopped at A frame at least 4 times in just the last 10 to 15 years and the bolts there now have survived for at least 7 years most locals just bring their own hardware.

Natural pro and long slings have been working for over 30 years on most routes at SP with a modest amount of cams, nuts and slings you can protect the rest of the routes. This is not a bolted sport climbing area and I am pretty sure other "old guard" climbers would not want a lot of bolts added to most walls.

At least a dozen bolts on the left Beethoven wall have been chopped over the years and long slings have always been the normal way to protect it, I wish we could get some bolts closer to the edge but someone doesn't like them and they keep getting chopped.

Putting maillons on the bolts will be more noticeable and most likely get fleeced so save your money. I have done bolt replacement there when needed and I have had to finish some sloppy attempted bolt chopping too and like sower said a long shank glue in bolt is best.

Hopefully only experienced people will install any new bolts and they will make sure to tag glued bolts so they wont be used until the glue is fully cured. Monday seems like a good day to install bolts since less people climb during the week and the glue will have more time to cure. Care must be taken that it hasn't rained in a couple weeks before bolting too.
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HardwareMan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy, just to be clear, not talking about sport bolting.

Maybe someone from a webbing manufacturer chops em to sell more webbing! Kidding!

Thanks for the feedback, i bucked up and bought miles of webbing, so i give up.

Just like to make a blanket screw you statement to anyone that chops proper tr bolts.haha It makes you have a lot more gear to climb. here it is, screw you, you holyier than thou rock nazis!! This rock is a great way to get more people into the sport. It would be even better wth nice anchors. That being said, damn its a mess when everyone bolts like crazy. But the best way to stop bad bolts is with existing good bolts. I would rather have three holes at the top of a climb than 28 stubs, which is what will happen eventually. the bolt choppers are very short sighted.

more people into the sport means more access for us. we need people to speak for us when things like williamson rock come up.

Not you Tozanyaku! thanks for the feedback! I am over it, buttholes will be butholes! Ill deal with the miles of webbing and pass out buttkickings if I ever see one of the vandals!!
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